(Topic ID: 283985)

Ball Trough craziness in Judge Dredd

By durgee7

3 years ago


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  • 90 posts
  • 15 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 36 hours ago by TevB
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    There are 90 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
    #51 3 years ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    This is the key. If you have eliminated the optos, mpu, and connections as the cause, you very likely need one of these: ebay.com link » Pinball Ball Trough Repair Sleeve
    My Dredd had trough issues on/off for years until I installed this "sleeve". It fixed my problem 6 years ago and it's never happened again.
    It sounds impossible but the balls on your game are intermittently hanging in the trough, not rolling forward. That is your problem and also why the game/ball "will not end".
    This eventually becomes a problem on most every machine that uses this style of ball feed STTNG, IJ, ect. It starts being intermittent and happens more and more as time goes on.
    This part will help prevent future failures as well. I scratched my head for hours and it was this simple.

    This

    #52 3 years ago

    I'm still waiting on that guy to ship, can you believe it? I purchased that sleeve the moment it was posted by snyper2099. Let's hope it's this simple.

    #53 3 years ago
    Quoted from durgee7:

    I'm still waiting on that guy to ship, can you believe it? I purchased that sleeve the moment it was posted by snyper2099. Let's hope it's this simple.

    Damn, I should have checked my emails before posting my response. I literally just received a confirmation for shipment of the trough sleeve. Oh yeah!

    #54 3 years ago
    Quoted from durgee7:

    I'm still waiting on that guy to ship, can you believe it? I purchased that sleeve the moment it was posted by snyper2099. Let's hope it's this simple.

    I've seen them cut out of cardboard. You could cut one out if you had the measurements. I have also ordered them made out of clear plexi. Super simple item. Just slip it in......

    #55 3 years ago
    Quoted from Llabnip1972:

    I've seen them cut out of cardboard. You could cut one out if you had the measurements. I have also ordered them made out of clear plexi. Super simple item. Just slip it in......

    That's great! I'll admit... I'm a little skeptical that it will solve this problem but I have nothing to lose (except more $ for parts) at this point.

    I ended up reflowing some of the sketchy solder points on those opto boards. I also got around to reflowing and building up the solder pads for the 4 judges playfield flashers because Death wasn't lighting up in test mode. Still need to repair Backbox GI string #4 which is likely a bad connector even though it looks good by visual observation. This game is coming together, especially since I can play it with my lame electrical tape workaround. I'll remove the tape once the ball trough repair arrives. I'm having too much fun with the game even though there's still wierd opto issues.

    #56 3 years ago
    Quoted from durgee7:

    Still need to repair Backbox GI string #4 which is likely a bad connector even though it looks good by visual observation.

    Three points to check. Transformer. GI AC into side of driver board. And connector to backbox.

    LTG : )

    #57 3 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    Three points to check. Transformer. GI AC into side of driver board. And connector to backbox.
    LTG : )

    Will do. Thanks LTG!

    #58 3 years ago

    And there you have it! A hacked connection at J121. That explains the GI issues!

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    #59 3 years ago
    Quoted from durgee7:

    And there you have it! A hacked connection at J121. That explains the GI issues!
    [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

    Ok, repairing and replacing the j121 connectors was useless. I'll need to check the other 2 items LTG suggested above. Man, I thought I had this GI thing down by now. Also, the game continues playing due to my tape hack, but now the left shooter solenoid is back to intermittently firing (but not in test mode).

    #60 3 years ago
    Quoted from durgee7:

    Ok, repairing and replacing the j121 connectors was useless. I'll need to check the other 2 items LTG suggested above. Man, I thought I had this GI thing down by now. Also, the game continues playing due to my tape hack, but now the left shooter solenoid is back to intermittently firing (but not in test mode).

    Any comments on this connector? Transformers issues maybe? I wonder if repinning this will eliminate some problems.

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    #61 3 years ago

    Any reason this is labeled and plugged into J104 instead of J105? Manual says J105. Also, I swapped to J105 with no improvement.

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    #62 3 years ago
    Quoted from durgee7:

    Any reason this is labeled and plugged into J104 instead of J105? Manual says J105. Also, I swapped to J105 with no improvement.
    [quoted image]

    Oh my goodness...the J135 connector was labeled J133. I swapped it to the correct place. Game plays great but still no String 4 GI.

    Update: plays great and...now we have Mr. Left Shooter making his intermittent appearance. Grrrrrrrr...can't wait for the trough repair.

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    #63 3 years ago

    That burnt pin on the GI feed from the transformer is probably the culprit to the GI string being out. Are the GI connectors themselves at J120, J121 and J115 not burnt? If not, then repin the transformer plug and you should be up and running.

    #64 3 years ago
    Quoted from Xenon75:

    That burnt pin on the GI feed from the transformer is probably the culprit to the GI string being out. Are the GI connectors themselves at J120, J121 and J115 not burnt? If not, then repin the transformer plug and you should be up and running.

    Correct, no burned connection at the power driver board for those connections. I removed that GI pin at the transformer to see if I could get a better bond between the pin and insert terminals but no luck. I want to test whether this one pin terminal is causing the GI issue before ordering more stuff. Now, there is a continuity reading between the wires when the terminals are in contact...not sure if that matters.

    #65 3 years ago
    Quoted from durgee7:

    Correct, no burned connection at the power driver board for those connections. I removed that GI pin at the transformer to see if I could get a better bond between the pin and insert terminals but no luck. I want to test whether this one pin terminal is causing the GI issue before ordering more stuff. Now, there is a continuity reading between the wires when the terminals are in contact...not sure if that matters.

    Fk yeah GI!!! It was that burnt pin terminal. I tested it using an extra ceiling fan wire nut. Just a short term fix for one of many problems.

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    #66 3 years ago

    You’re getting there. Don’t give up!

    I’m confident the trough repair will solve one of your problems but, probably will not solve your flickering trough OPTO in switch test issue.

    #67 3 years ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    You’re getting there. Don’t give up!
    I’m confident the trough repair will solve one of your problems but, probably will not solve your flickering trough OPTO in switch test issue.

    I like your optimistic outlook! Im just happy to have gotten one (or a couple) things knocked off the list. I didn't even realize the same GI issue was keeping the Globe 555 bulbs from lighting...but that center flasher bulb always worked.

    I'm anxiously awaiting the trough repair. Lot's of checking my mail these next few days. Unfortunately, my new house has those communal mail boxes that are locked.

    #68 3 years ago

    I got my first credit dot! It's for SW 82 trough. At least the game recognizes the error now. Making progress.

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    #69 3 years ago
    Quoted from durgee7:

    I got my first credit dot! It's for SW 82 trough. At least the game recognizes the error now. Making progress.
    [quoted image]

    Switch 82 trough 5...that doesn't make sense. Should be Switch 85 trough 5 or Switch 82 trough 2.

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    #70 3 years ago

    Ok, I really think I've found the problem. It's the cpu. I should have checked it again because I relied on my youngest to check the dmd while I ran through the test points. The video shows a pattern. If you notice, row 5 switch always activates the correct switch along with one column higher. I went through the entire matrix...so when you activate SW 75, it also activates SW 85 (ball trough). Same for 65/75, 55/65, 45/55, 35/45, 25/35, and 15/25. It always activates one column switch higher on the same row (row 5 only). This has got to be cpu related. Any feedback is welcome!!! I haven't taken out the board yet.

    #71 3 years ago
    Quoted from durgee7:

    Ok, I really think I've found the problem. It's the cpu. I should have checked it again because I relied on my youngest to check the dmd while I ran through the test points. The video shows a pattern. If you notice, row 5 switch always activates the correct switch along with one column higher. I went through the entire matrix...so when you activate SW 75, it also activates SW 85 (ball trough). Same for 65/75, 55/65, 45/55, 35/45, 25/35, and 15/25. It always activates one column switch higher on the same row (row 5 only). This has got to be cpu related. Any feedback is welcome!!! I haven't taken out the board yet.

    Possibly a bad 74LS374. Not looking good for the cpu. I'm tempted to get a new cpu for sake of saving time and starting fresh without a battery acid damaged board. I'll sleep on it and make a decision later.
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    #72 3 years ago

    Yeah, alkali damage bad. It’s actually not acid damage, but alkali damage. You use the “acid” to clean it up!

    It can be repaired but honestly, a new MPU is not that expensive.

    #73 3 years ago

    Sorry, Alkali...I had battery acid on my mind for some reason. I'm ordering a new mpu. My only fear is that I put in a new mpu and something else causes an mpu component to break. At this point, my best bet is just to suck it up and get the mpu.

    ...

    Ok, ordered from Pinball Heaven in the UK. I could not find anything in the States for some reason. Phil from Pinball Heaven responded to my concerns with the chip removal and rom swap. Hope the board gets here within the next few weeks.

    #74 3 years ago

    Good luck with this. I will be starting to shop my JD soon so I am watching with interest.

    #76 3 years ago

    I got some "light" reading to do this week. Thanks for the link, Gogo!

    #77 3 years ago

    Ha! Yes, DumbAss is super knowledgeable and does these sorts of things for fun! He is one of the go-to local pinball gurus and a great asset to the community.

    #78 3 years ago

    Holy crap that came fast! Time to hook it up.

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    #79 3 years ago

    That was it!!! New CPU took care of all the remaining problems. Game works flawlessly! Shout out to Phil at Pinball Heaven - UK for sending the board so quickly, and in one piece. YESSSSSS!!!

    Now I have a spare CPU that's mostly working, and brand new (spare) ball trough boards, with a yet-to-be-installed ball trough repair (from The Wizard in Jersey).

    To the previous owner that said the game was fully working and didn't mention the CPU battery board damage...I'm dissapointed, but the game is in overall good condition...so no hard feelings from me.

    #80 3 years ago

    Glad to see that the issues are fixed, and now you have some spare parts for any possible future problems... lol

    Enjoy the game!! It is criminally underrated.

    #81 3 years ago
    Quoted from Calfdemon:

    Enjoy the game!! It is criminally underrated.

    And make sure too look up and find the easter eggs.

    1 week later
    #82 3 years ago

    Hey Guys,

    Here's an update that was a problem solved today. It has actual relevance to the title of this thread. I had left the old ball trough boards in place when swapping the mpu. For some reason, I recently started getting ball trough 2 and 5 errors (sw 82 and sw 85) which was causing 3-ball multiball for super game. So wierd...so I swapped with my extra (new) trough boards and problem solved. I thought this thread needed a more appropriate closeout since it's actually related to the title. I also installed the awesome metal trough repair. Machine is running smooth. Thanks to everyone on this thread for the support!

    #83 3 years ago

    Curious....has anyone ever successfully repaired the receiver trough board before??

    #84 3 years ago

    Glad to hear you got it sorted out. Enjoy JD!

    3 years later
    #85 51 days ago

    So I had the same ball count issue. However, if I let the game sit for about 2 minutes after turning it on, it works perfectly! Could it be that simple? If I start the game as soon as turning it on, ball count is lost.

    #86 51 days ago
    Quoted from TevB:

    So I had the same ball count issue. However, if I let the game sit for about 2 minutes after turning it on, it works perfectly! Could it be that simple? If I start the game as soon as turning it on, ball count is lost.

    Any time things 'work after it gets warm' I'm suspecting capacitors.

    On your trough receiver board is a 100uf 35v capacitor that has probably failed, and leaked electrolyte. It won't be bulged at the top, you might see something wet at the bottom of the capacitor or you might see corrosion. You'll definitely smell electrolyte when you apply a soldering iron.

    These 100uf 35v capacitors are failing on all machines this age. There is one on your 7-opto board under the playfield also that has likely failed.

    The usual cause of 'losing all the optos' is that your connector is bad, but every machine this age I come to now I'm finding capacitor failure causing board failure.

    To fix this, pull the receiver opto board, re-solder the connector pins (just in case) and I'd be replacing that capacitor and correcting any corrosion caused by it.

    Let us know what you find.

    #87 50 days ago

    Been done already. I just about replaced everything you can think of. There are other threads mentioning the Dredd ball count loss issue. I worked on it for months. Now it works perfectly every time, as long as I let the game sit for a couple minutes after turning it on. I tested playing it as soon as it’s on, and it loses ball count. I was wondering if it’s a delay in “booting up”. New opto boards, new mpu, shopped, etc.
    Letting it “boot up” works every time.

    #88 49 days ago
    Quoted from TevB:

    Been done already.

    Glad to hear! The effects of the corrosion from the electrolyte leaking can be quite annoying!

    In your position, I would:

    This is common enough to the Thermister problem that I'd probably replace it:

    https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Williams_WPC#Failed_Thermistor

    Check the 12v going into the opto boards. Make sure it isn't low when the machine is first turned on.

    Depending on how this was annoying me, I probably would just replace the trough boards, and rebuild the connectors with crimp and stuff with fresh .100 terminals. Bad connections are the source of a lot of annoyingly hard troubleshooting.

    The reason I'm replacing the trough boards is because LED's have a lifespan, and that lifespan is over when the LED reaches 'half brightness'. This indicates that over time the LED's can get dim... and Williams not only runs the IR transmitters all the time the game is turned on, they run them a bit hot!

    So to eliminate all the potential problems with the trough system (broken solder connections, etc...), I'd replace the trough opto boards.

    Then I'd probably replace the IDC connector that carries +12v to the trough with crimp-and-stuff with trifurcon.

    Further work would be to replace all the pins for J116, J117, J118, and J119. But I suspect just improving the connection because the trifurcons grab the pins on three sides might have an effect.

    After that, J102 is where a lot of the 'other voltages' come in to the power driver board. As part of my WPC reset work, I now very frequently will be replacing J101 (where +5v comes in) pins and plugs, and J114 (where +5v goes out to the CPU), so replacing pins and plugs on machines this age to solve wierd voltage problems is something I'm getting VERY accustomed to.

    The problem with intermittent problems is that they won't stay around long enough to find the actual problem!

    But this is how I'd approach it.

    #89 45 days ago

    PinRetail
    Thanks for all this info! Wow! I am going to check out the thermistor sometime as soon as I get my replacement leds.
    Thank You for your input and effort.
    Cheers,
    Tev

    1 month later
    #90 36 hours ago

    I finally got around to the thermistor. Sure enough it was bad. It crumbled apart when I was removing it.
    I replaced it with a new one. However, I still found that if I don’t wait at least a minute before playing, it will still glitch. Otherwise, it plays perfectly.
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    There are 90 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.

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