Some people have no business driving a car, or having kids, yet they do. Same for running a business, not everyone is going to be good at it. All businesses are not equal, some are going to be more complex to manage than others.

A pinball machine is a massive mess for logistics, qa, engineering, accounting and production. I sure as heck wouldn’t start a pinball company as I would likely lose my shirt and starve to death.

So I have more pity than hate for anyone that tries and fails. It probably took a couple poor decisions, a couple bad employees or just some supply quality issues that can jumble all the finances. I don’t have a clear picture and don’t want to read the 50 pages of what happened at haggis.

They should have called it "Haggis.....Seriously? Pass."

This could just go back into a "I guess people don't understand what non refundable means" type of situation....

Well that’s a very important part. Haha. Yeah. No matter what you’re not getting a non refundable deposit back unless they make an exception.

You buy the series pass. OP emails Damien CCing you, you get a response from Damien they will honor the transfer. YAY!

You get a call tomorrow that your Centaur Orblivion edition is ready to ship from Australia... all they need is the additional $8995 (or however much it is) to cover the balance of your payment...

Do you cut the check?

I don't know that I'd trust that. If balance was due when the machine was in the USA and in the hands of a distributor... maybe.

I am feeling less and less confident we will get to see a newly made paragon or eight ball deluxe...

GLWTS!

I'm just thinking the guy who gets a response from Damien should ask questions on behalf of the other dozen(s?) who do not.

Isn't Damien the name of the anti-christ in the Omen?

Probably unrelated.

Lol

Not without a photographic evidence of the game and a new contract that states a full refund will be issued at any time upon request if the game fails to materialize by a certain date.

Not that the contract would be worth the paper it's written on...it would just be nice to have and frame it for the wall later....

buy it then call ACCC they will get you a full refund, they cn say it's non refundable however if they have breached any condition it's void

I was actually curious about this, myself. Is the "series pass" an actual physical certificate of some sort, or is it just a name on a spreadsheet overseas?

I'm assuming the latter, but figured it couldn't hurt to ask at this point...

It's sort of insane to me that a distro would sell this product. What distro did you go through for this?

Theres only 1 US distributor

Should of known by the logo!

I can't even think of 4 early Bally titles, that would be worth the kind of money fathom can command.

My guesses for popularity/demand would be:

Fathom
Centaur
Eight Ball Deluxe
Flash Gordon
Paragon

At least those are the one's I'd want.

flip you off pinball?

Fathom and Centaur are definitely collector bait, but I wouldn't put either of them in my early Bally top 4, factoring in gameplay. But I'm not paying Haggis money for any of 'em, so it's a moot point I guess.

yes, but would anyone pay 8k for any of those? Fathom is the only one that commands NIB prices. The rest, not so much. Seemed like suckers money from the get go.

Pass seems the unfortunate operative word for buyer interest

amazing. So Zach, the guy who was like "send these guys money they're legit!!!1"

Their money is safe and I’m sure he will refund all deposits.

That’s why it’s different this time!

Absolutely. Zach’s a standup guy. He would never sell or endorse such a risky product without some hedge or guarantee to his buyers. Especially given the recent history of other pinball “manufacturers”.

I don't think he is asking for a check. A check can be cancelled. Target scratch off Gift Cards cannot. Sheesh Damien needs to learn to scam better. Maybe the restructuring involves establishing a new call center in India.

It's a bit suspect he offered this to begin with, he needs to make better decisions and stop selling risky assets. If he isn't willing to give refunds now, and it doesn't appear he is, it's up to everyone to protect themselves. Though, not buying this to begin with was one of those ways, but here some of you are.

It just sucks that they’ve had to hold on to all of this money all of this time so it can be promptly refunded when it’s finally official. But at least they got some free interest out of it. But it was the right thing was to keep all of this money in a safe place and not spend any of it, In case something like this happened.

It’s probably several hundred thousand dollars? Or would that be hyperbole?

Didn't he say on one of his podcast episodes that haggis required the deposit funds to be sent in to haggis and that they're not being held in escrow by Zach at all? So if haggis collapses, it sounded like he would be refunding customers from his own pocket.

So does this all mean toppers are going up even more?

Zach might not be taking the family to Disney world next year if that is the case it is all out of his pocket. It will be interesting how he handles it when/if Haggis likely makes it official.

I have played his version of Centaur and wouldn’t cut the check if he were standing on my front porch with the game in box.

I thought Fathom was nice although the added story and code were useless to me. For that kind of cash find a really nice original.

Imo Zach and anyone else needs to refund the money now. Its not fair to keep people's money in limbo for an indeterminate but undoubtedly long (best case scenerio) time when the stakes have changed so much. I don't care if it's "non refundable". Given the circumstances now, the money should be refunded to anyone who asks. On the off chance Haggis is somehow able to pull it together then they can choose if they want to jump back in or not and be at the front of the line if they do.

If you get a refund? Then what does "non refundable" mean?

To me it's like asking for your money back because you didn't win on a scratch ticket.

-Mike

Asking for a non-refundable deposit for something and then not making said thing, or perpetually delaying it, is little more than a scam. It isn't legal.

Yeah, sorry, all of that went out the window after the goalposts were moved the length of 10 stadiums over the course of this fiasco. Why does haggis get to say "yes we promised this but now it's this much worse thing now" over and over and over again, but "we said non-refundable" doesn't get to change? That's just a pill I'm not willing to swallow.

What?! That's for backing out of buying something you committed to on your end. Not the same as when said something isn't delivered. Now they aren't living up to their end.

What a perfect comparison! Apples to apples indeed, well done sir!

In pretentious southern accent: "it's like... uh.. you don't know what the word REFUNDABLE means."

Tournament players might not care as you’re typically not collectors buying top end machines. Not the target audience of the snakes. Many are collectors and many do care.

I know the kool aid drinkers and shills getting discounts while promoting whatever they receive def don’t like it. Many call out the same and for the new collectors that are the target of this BS - yeah, I’ll call it out for them as well. The snakes out there - people see through it and it will be called out.

Let’s see how this deposit thing is handled bc the gamble certainly isn’t paying off. I got the popcorn out….

To my knowledge there was no time or expiration date.
-Mike

Come on, if you were to pull out and get your refund, you are now out. You don't get to say hey I see you got it together and I'll get back in at the front of the line. Doesn't work like that,you go to the back of the line,if there is even one.
They will lose customers for life if they don't get things together.

-Mike

Very expensive lottery ticket!

Pretty sure they've already lost every customer for life.

I would be fine with that as well, and probably nobody would jump back in anyway. I just thought it might be a good idea as a showing of good will from Haggis after jacking these people around for years. Sadly, I don't think any of it is going to happen.